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February 15th, 2010
06:20 am
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Daily Random Thoughts
(via LoudTwitter)
  • 16:04 In #Pcon OSOGD room party conversation just now, I misheard "sharp pointy objects" as "sharp pony objects." (*ears perk up* Oooh! Unicorns!) #
  • 22:22 At the age of 32, I have just now (for the first time) experienced something most people will never get to do: Dance to a song in 7/4 time. #

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From:comingin2day
Date:February 15th, 2010 03:45 pm (UTC)
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7/4 time, Für Elise, Ludwig van Beethoven's (1770–1827) a perfect example. Actually, there are some Irish jigs and western country line dances that do have those fast tempos and do them quite often and even faster. So, at 32 you haven't fallen over with a heart attack, very impressive. Sounds like you had fun.
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From:copperwolf
Date:February 15th, 2010 04:28 pm (UTC)
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Für Elise is in 7/4 time? That's news to me.
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From:comingin2day
Date:February 15th, 2010 05:03 pm (UTC)
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From:circuit_four
Date:February 15th, 2010 06:52 pm (UTC)
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"The piece is in 3/8 and begins with a right-hand theme accompanied by arpeggios in the left hand; the harmonies used are A minor and E major."

I'm no music theorist; am I missing something here?
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From:comingin2day
Date:February 15th, 2010 07:49 pm (UTC)
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there is 7 counts in the 3/8...



If you play piano, the song is quite fast and I was illustrating the speed, if you can see between the bars. The point is that I was understanding how fast the music he was referencing.. Your words sound a little argumentative in response and a little belittling in your reading of 3/8 count.
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From:rax
Date:February 15th, 2010 08:01 pm (UTC)
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I expect circuit_four was genuinely wondering if ey was missing something and this is just a "there's no voice tone on the internet" problem. I've spent the last five minutes staring at the sheet music and I'm also not seeing groupings of 7; obviously there's no obligation but if you have a moment I'd also love to hear an explanation of where the count is. It would give me something new to appreciate in the piece. :)
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From:comingin2day
Date:February 16th, 2010 02:05 am (UTC)
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there are two lines, the music is played by two different hands, if you notice the keys are not hitting at the same time but played individually, so if you line them up in the second brackets, top and bottom; you are getting 7 keys of music in 4 counts. Arpeggios is individually played keys using the left hand. In A minor and E major.

An "arpeggiated chord" means a chord which is "spread", i.e., the notes are not played exactly at the same time, but are spread out.

Next the piece moves into an agitated theme set over a pedal point on A. After a gauntlet of arpeggios and a chromatic descend over an octave and a half, the main theme returns, and the piece ends in its starting key of A minor with an authentic cadence. The piece, though called a bagatelle, is in rondo form. It provides a good basic exercise on piano pedalling technique.

Ludwig van Beethoven, uses many cases of the 3 key exposition in his sonatas. Examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-key_exposition

This was an example and I did not pull out my sheet music, but because I play the piece; I used it as an example. I find it strange that I can use this piece as an example of speed and tempo, whether it is accurate or not; seems quite bizarre that it has become a means of conflict when all it takes is some research on someone's side of wanting to be educated on music.

This website shows Basic tempo markings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo#Italian_tempo_markings

examples of of beats per minute for:
Prestissimo — extremely fast (more than 200bpm)
Presto — very fast (168–200 bpm)

It's all in the count in both hands.
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From:baxil
Date:February 16th, 2010 07:31 pm (UTC)
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Thank you for the extra explanation but I think there's some confusion here about terminology.

When I say "7/4 time" I am referring to time signature (as are the other commenters here on this thread). The Wikipedia page you originally linked to states (correctly) that Fur Elise has a time signature of 3/8 (every measure contains the equivalent of three 1/8 notes; in this case, six 1/16s). Time signature counts how many "beats" you get per measure (or bar, if you prefer). It does not count the number of notes, because if you have notes of different lengths then the number of notes by itself tells you nothing about the rhythmic pattern of the song.

The reason dancing to a piece in 7/4 time was so notable is that we're most used to beats in groups of fours - and sometimes groups of threes. Having a song in a complex time signature is rare enough in itself, actually dancing to it is almost unheard of and takes some adjustment.

If there's any remaining confusion, let's clear it up, but I'd prefer that we talk about something else now.
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From:comingin2day
Date:February 16th, 2010 07:37 pm (UTC)
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All I meant for was to say I understood, that is pretty Damn Fast dancing. Actually, dancing to a very fast beat a repetitive step is pretty fun and I have found much pleasure and laughter in attempting a faster speed myself with my examples.

So, I am glad you had fun.
From:drake [begriffli.ch]
Date:February 17th, 2010 04:38 am (UTC)
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A time signature is not a tempo marking.

From:drake [begriffli.ch]
Date:February 15th, 2010 05:39 pm (UTC)
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Since you are/were a fellow arrowsmasher, I imagine you may have seen chart files floating around for DM Ashura's “Seven”, which does exactly what it says on the tin.

And since you've had at least some contact with the culture surrounding the FSF &c., you're probably aware that the Free Software Song is based on “Sadi Moma”, and I would expect RMS to have tried to dance to it at least once.

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From:baxil
Date:February 16th, 2010 07:38 pm (UTC)
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While I've played Stepmania some, I don't have a pad that will interface with my computer, so I mostly stick with the classic DDR games for my PS2. Haven't seen "seven" but will keep an eye out for it.

Just found out from Wikipedia that Pink Floyd's "Money" is also in 7/4, though I've never seen it played at a dance.
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From:circuit_four
Date:February 15th, 2010 06:49 pm (UTC)
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Baxil, I am shocked and offended to hear you describe unicorns as "sharp pony objects." We are not mere objects, and I object to your callous and prejudiced... uh... de-equinizing comments!

*lightbulb flickers on and off*

What? What are you staring at? -O:|

Edited at 2010-02-15 06:50 pm (UTC)
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From:baxil
Date:February 16th, 2010 07:51 pm (UTC)
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Uhhhhh ... ummm ... but some of my best friends are unicorns! You're just looking to get offended, because it was a joke in the first place. And anyway I'm a dragon and dragons have racial issues too --

Wait a minute, why is everyone pulling out Bingo cards?
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From:rax
Date:February 15th, 2010 07:52 pm (UTC)
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Here is the 7/4 song I've danced to. (Basically the whole album is in 7/4, but the rest of it is even less danceable than Hajnal.)
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From:aprivatefox
Date:February 15th, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
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Holy awesomeness, thank you for sharing that. I am getting that album now.
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From:rax
Date:February 15th, 2010 08:46 pm (UTC)

"Pigeon, why are you not part of my life anymore?"

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You should! In my opinion it's their best album by far; although <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Rosen_Bridge_%28EP%29>Einstein-Rosen Bridge</a> is also very good, I find most of the rest of their catalog nigh unlistenable.
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From:aprivatefox
Date:February 15th, 2010 08:49 pm (UTC)

Re: "Pigeon, why are you not part of my life anymore?"

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Thanks for the info. Enqueued on my ZunePass, and if I like the albums after renting them, off to the store to buy for real. =)
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From:baxil
Date:February 16th, 2010 07:57 pm (UTC)
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That's surprisingly catchy! I have to admit I was a little thrown when the drum & bass line blasted in at about the 4-minute mark, though.

Band bookmarked for later reference and/or acquisition.
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From:luna_torquill
Date:February 15th, 2010 08:56 pm (UTC)
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I've danced to "March of the Pigs", which is three bars of 7/8 followed by a bar of 4/4. That's great fun. :)
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From:baxil
Date:February 16th, 2010 08:01 pm (UTC)
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And just when you get adjusted to the 7/8 again, they insert that extra beat ...
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