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October 25th, 2003
03:26 pm
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Lord, make my enemies fools
Well, heck, as long as we're talking about Jesus already ...

Picture: 'God hates you just the way you are'

Ruben Israel, left, of Los Angeles, and Stephen James, right, of Somerset,Penn., heckle anti-war demonstrators Saturday who were marching in Washington to protest the U.S. troop presence in Iraq. (Gerald Herbert/Associated Press)

This has nothing to do with anyone's opinion about the war, or anyone's feelings about the occupation (although, if it matters to you, I was against the former and am reluctantly for the latter). It's just ... wow. I want to laugh and gape and whack my head against a wall, all at once.

(By the way, if any of you are tempted to make a comment like "Heh, stupid Christians" -- Whatever's making these people stupid isn't found in a book. For proper perspective, go read The Right Christians for a while. Heck, go check it out anyway -- it's a good blog.)

Current Mood: workingworking
Current Music: The Moody Blues, "Eyes of a Child II"
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From:tropism
Date:October 25th, 2003 04:53 pm (UTC)
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Well, they certainly -are- stupid, though they're about as far away from Christian, in my humble, heathen opinion, as you can get, while still claiming to worship Christ...
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From:baxil
Date:October 25th, 2003 05:10 pm (UTC)
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The world really needs an easy epithet to refer to this sort of off-the-deep-end fundamentalist that isn't also insulting to ordinary Christians. Something to make clear that we think that they're morons not because of the movements with which they associate, but because ... well ... they're morons.

Ideally, this epithet would be portable -- because it's not only Christians that have trouble with being defined by the most extreme, horrible examples of their faith.
From:tropism
Date:October 25th, 2003 05:19 pm (UTC)
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I suppose that the truly applicable epithet would be 'heretic'...;)
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From:kinkyturtle
Date:October 25th, 2003 09:20 pm (UTC)

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There's always 'hypocrite'... hmm, how about 'hypocrist' for those who call themselves Christians?
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:19 am (UTC)
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I like that, actually. "Hypochristians" or "hypochrists" sounds catchiest to me, though I can't decide between the two.
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From:thrames
Date:October 25th, 2003 04:58 pm (UTC)
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You notice how its, like, 4 people protesting the protesters, and there are probably in excess of 100 protesters of the war?
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From:baxil
Date:October 25th, 2003 05:05 pm (UTC)
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I've only gotten fragmentary figures from the AP stories I read -- and this isn't by any means a full list of today's demonstrations -- but the tally I do know about runs something like this:

Anti-war
D.C.: 10,000+ (organizers say as many as 100,000)
San Francisco: As many as 5,000
Reno: 100

Pro-war (counterprotesters)
D.C.: "dozens"
San Francisco: Unknown
Reno: 50

I'm not going to take the time to link to all the sources, but do a Google news search, or check out any site with an Associated Press feed (we're sitting right on the wire here at work).
From:_starblade_
Date:October 25th, 2003 08:22 pm (UTC)

Um...

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You know, a lot more people might actually be for the war than agianst it. It's just that the anti-war crowd might actually be a vocal minority.

So giving listings of how many people are protesting doesn't say anything meaningful about how for or against the war the people of America are.
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:21 am (UTC)

Re: Um...

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No, but it does tell you how many care enough to waste a day out on the streets facing down police and possibly-hostile ideological opponents.

I mostly provided the numbers because they were right at hand. Like I've indicated, I work at a newspaper.
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From:jolantru
Date:October 25th, 2003 06:52 pm (UTC)
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*sigh*
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:22 am (UTC)
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Yeah ... that's about the best response I could find.
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From:soreth
Date:October 25th, 2003 07:23 pm (UTC)
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What was it Larry Niven said? "There is no cause so great that one cannot find an idiot in its ranks"?
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:22 am (UTC)
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Okay, that one gets looked up and put into the quotebook. :)
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From:soreth
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:45 am (UTC)
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There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it.

http://www.larryniven.org/stories/nivens_laws.htm -- A quick Google later, the full list he had published in one of his collections springs up. (And incidentally, if I recall his explanations well enough from the expanded version I read years ago, his rationale for #5 was that "nothing significant has been done with them.")
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From:eredien
Date:October 26th, 2003 09:16 am (UTC)
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I really liked Number 17, which is so obvious that I'm astonished I'd never heard it stated before, so complex that I'm not surprised that no one had, and so wonderful that I am cheered up.
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From:soreth
Date:October 26th, 2003 10:23 am (UTC)
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^..-
From:_starblade_
Date:October 25th, 2003 08:18 pm (UTC)

Oh dang.

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Have you ever seen this: ( http://objective.jesussave.us/shutdown.html ).

It's funny if you like to laugh at outrageous stuff like this. Look, one of the links even leads to a 'recreation of Noah's Ark'!
From:_starblade_
Date:October 25th, 2003 08:24 pm (UTC)

BTW...

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I think these people might just be trying to get a laugh. It's really hard to tell, but given that this modern age is all about cynicism and insincerity, it makes no sense to assume that these people are serious, especially with what their protest signs actually say.
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:26 am (UTC)

Re: BTW...

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That's a legitimate point -- we should question the basic assumption -- but with as many <A HREF="http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2003/10/25/55081.php?sp1=rgj&sp2=News&sp3=Local+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news>documented examples</A> of this type of behavior as there are, I see no reason to assume this pair's insincerity until there is evidence to that effect.
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From:baxil
Date:October 26th, 2003 01:30 am (UTC)

And speaking of evidence

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A quick Google search on "Ruben Israel" "Los Angeles" returned this page as one of the results. It includes photos, so you can verify that Mr. "Bush Jesus Gun" has a record of this sort of behavior.

I assume that settles the matter.
From:_starblade_
Date:November 1st, 2003 01:00 am (UTC)

Urgh...

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I know this has nothing to do with the current topic, but I think I should inform you that the US has held secret trials. Well, I guess you already knew that, but here's the link anyways: http://www.livejournal.com/community/debate/2686743.html?view=95825687#t95825687

I will also post a link to this on tomorrowlands.

Thank you for your time.
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