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January 9th, 2005
12:41 am
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I would like to make an open response to http://friends.portalofevil.com/sp.php?si=3&fi=000019096&ti=1000613483&pi=1000613483 -- I just have a few things I need to say on the record.

To anyone who might be running around with a grudge against Jazaaboo on my behalf
QUIT IT. Seriously.

It hurt, I did my healing, I got over it. If I wanted revenge now, I'd be doing something about it myself. If I wanted revenge in the first place, I would have encouraged it. I needed some private space to vent, not a declaration of war. What part of "DO NOT HATE THE HAMSTERS" did not come through clearly?

If you have your own grudges against her for your own legitimate reasons -- God knows why; I don't keep track of her life -- maybe you should read the thread above and take that as food for thought. Grudges resurrect drama. If you want to be stuck fighting the same pointless Internet battle all your life, go right ahead, but really, don't you have better things to do?

Also, if you have made (or want to make) physical threats or are trying to get someone fired, STOP. You have CROSSED THE LINE. I condemn all such acts, and while you might not care about that, care about this: They are dangerous. They are the Abu Ghraib of Internet argument. You kick a few enemies' heads, and suddenly you might find a few of your guys coming home without them, since you've just signalled your willingness to fight dirtier and nobody's going to let that slide. The Geneva Convention is not just there for the bad guys' benefit.

To Tal-Pass Portaxx/Jazaaboo/LLK
Let me just be totally clear on this: Most of what's in your thread was news to me.

I didn't nurse any grudges and I didn't expect anyone else to. Yes, it did hurt. But I chewed over it for a day or two and then, in an attempt at emotional judo, pointed out the thread and asked friends to make something positive out of their outrage. Over $100 was donated to Mercy Corps in your name.

I tried to send you word, and an invitation to talk privately, via a Livejournal comment. You showed no signs of receiving it. I checked your journal a few times after that, POE once, and lost interest, assuming everyone else had too.

After everything that's gone on, I think it might be helpful for the two of us to have a quiet, civil, private talk. Are you willing to contact me via e-mail? Your contact information seems to be nowhere on the Internet, which is why you've never heard anything from me about this.

To POE
So what would happen if I asked nicely not to let this continue to spiral out of control into high drama? ... Yeah, didn't think so.

Well, if you're going to go through with the Big Baxil Jr. Collage Project no matter what I say, do you at least want some pics of the dead cat too? I think I've got some at home.

--

Comments enabled but screened. No trolling (this means BOTH sides).

Current Mood: tiredweary
Current Music: Rammstein, "Barbie Girl (German Version)"

(29 comments | Leave a comment)

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From:baxil
Date:January 9th, 2005 10:41 pm (UTC)
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Thank you. I'll e-mail her there, then.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:January 9th, 2005 03:23 pm (UTC)
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I'm sorry. I want to be rational and compassionate even towards people who don't deserve it. But my Inner Mafiosi is telling me Jazaaboo should get their thumbs broken. I won't do it, but nobody on this earth can tell me I can't find it very funny if they lose their job over this. :)

I have great respect for you, wanting to end this civilly. I hope it works. But if it doesn't, I hope you don't mind if Jazaaboo gets cancer and I laugh out loud when people send photographs of tumors. Peace begets peace, but Schadenfreude nurtures the soul in dark times. :)
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From:baxil
Date:January 9th, 2005 10:59 pm (UTC)
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"My Inner Mafiosi wishes vengeance, but I won't do it" is a very conscious and powerful response to high emotions. It's nothing to be ashamed of (unless you think we should be able to live in a world completely free of any sort of negativity whatsoever). I used that myself to get through the worst of it. Fortunately, I find that I don't need it any more here. You may feel the same in a few more months or years.

Thanks for your support.

Are you someone on my friends list? If so, I should post the Avenue Q song "Schadenfreude" behind a friends-lock for you to hear. Otherwise, lyrics.
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From:ounceofreason
Date:January 9th, 2005 07:03 pm (UTC)
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Damn. A bunch of bored cynics are making a temporary past-time of mocking an old friend and former roommate. If you need to vent, dude, I'm pretty sure you've got my phone #.. if not, PM me.

Hang in there, old boy. Pretty soon, someone will find a funny picture of some dude stretching out his ass or something, and then the masses will go crazy about him instead, because gross beats drama any day of the week.
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From:baxil
Date:January 9th, 2005 11:45 pm (UTC)
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I don't know about that -- nobody's asked me for the dead cat pics yet. I'm kinda disappointed.

As for venting -- nah, I'm good. :) Any thoughts of self-pity vanished when I skimmed the thread and found that they're calling me fat, a virgin, and a fag. OMG HIT TOO CLOSE TO HOME
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From:elynne
Date:January 11th, 2005 03:38 am (UTC)
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*bursts out in hysterical laughter*

OMG I MUST BE A GUY PRETENDING TO BE A CHICK ON THE INTARWEB TO SCORE HOT CYBERSEXXY
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From:jazaaboo
Date:January 9th, 2005 07:39 pm (UTC)
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You tried to talk to me? I don't recall ever seeing that. If you have AIM, we can arrange a time after Monday.

What's your e-mail? I'd give out mine but I'd like the Furry Faggotard Strike Force Alpha to not e-mail me about puppies... or at least if they're going to, they'd have to work just a tad to find my e-mail address.
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From:baxil
Date:January 9th, 2005 10:51 pm (UTC)
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I've always been one to keep drama private whenever possible, so in lieu of the e-mail address I couldn't find (and which none of the friends I asked knew), I used the time-honored technique of leaving you an LJ comment, twiddling my thumbs for about 30 seconds, and then deleting it, since in my experience something like 95-98% of Livejournalers have e-mail notification turned on.

Someone gave out your address upthread (I left it screened so nobody else can see it). I keep my IM contact information deliberately private but I'll drop you a line with it to the address that was provided -- if you don't get it, e-mail me at baxil @tomorrowlands.org and I'll reply.
From:halyn
Date:January 9th, 2005 08:49 pm (UTC)
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Wow. That's shocking. I'd thought both sides pretty much let it drop by now...otherkin got bored, POEers got bored. I only had a glance at the thread but I'm just floored to see it alive and well, and I'm also apt to trust Jazzaboo on the idea that there's a hate thing going on against him/her.

Huh.
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From:soreth
Date:January 9th, 2005 10:38 pm (UTC)
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Attempting to stop the wheel, are we? I rather hope something comes of it - it would be nice to see that happening, for once.
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From:ceruleanst
Date:January 10th, 2005 04:07 am (UTC)
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Eh. Those attacks on her life and job fit every criterion for a fair definition of "imaginary." Maybe I should draw a picture of her imaginary zombie dragon enemy.

What has happened here is that a person with cruel habits has been made to face the effect her behavior has on other people, and rather than taking away a lesson like "gee, maybe I shouldn't be such a asshat," she would rather spin it into "the freaks are homicidal!"
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From:jazaaboo
Date:January 10th, 2005 07:43 am (UTC)
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Odd words my friend. You say I'm trying to put a spin on it. I'm not. I was honest-to-God told that I should stay away from a furry con because someone really could find it in them to hurt me. I would never advocate someone physically hurting an otherkin just for being an otherkin. It's just wrong.

And clearly there is something wrong here when just a few replies above, someone says that they think my thumbs should be broken and that they'd laugh if I got cancer. Why? Because I worded something harshly? I never spammed the Tomorrowlands boards or sent flamemail to Baxil. Lord knows I wouldn't be happy if Baxil got cancer. I'd feel for him and even try to send him some small wish that he turns out okay. I would never laugh at someone getting a fatal illness just because they believe in dragons. That too is wrong.

Someone is wishing physical harm on me because I drew a mean picture. You can't say that's not messed-up.

There are many, many people who would be stunned to hear that some people demonize me so much that they think I should get beaten up or contract a fatal illness. I help people out a lot, actually, even though I don't parade it around online.

What I'm trying to say is, some of you people hate the hell out of me, but I don't hate any of you. Not a single one.

At any rate I'll just address these points with Baxil himself anyway. He always was the more calm and rational of the dragons.
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From:baxil
Date:January 10th, 2005 08:32 am (UTC)
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My side has its "I'd laugh if she got cancer"s, your side has its "Makes you wish all the dragons would follow Stars' Pyre's example, and jump off a tall building while simultaneously failing to sprout wings."

Someone is wishing physical harm on me just because I believe in dragons. You can't say that's not messed-up. (etc.)

Believe it or not, I do believe you when you say that you'd feel sorry for me if I got cancer (in other contexts I've seen glimpses of compassion from you). Hopefully you believe me when I say the same thing.

But I'm afraid neither of us can generalize that into a moral high ground, and I'm afraid neither of us is going to be able to hold that up as a defense to our other opponents. You don't get a pass for your compassion for the same reason I don't get cut a break from POE. It's equally unfair.

At this point, either of us trying to convince the other side that we're actually a good person not worthy of death/cancer/flames is likely an exercise in frustration. I'm just hoping that we can talk and maybe get a better understanding of each other personally.

I'm taking anything beyond this to e-mail. (And I'm heading home from the office now to work on newsletter stuff.)
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From:baxil
Date:January 10th, 2005 07:50 am (UTC)
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If it were just what appears to be posted on Urban Dictionary, I'd agree with you. I'll reserve judgment on the rest until I have a chance to talk to her and see what there is beyond that. She certainly seems to think there's something there, but if it's misinformation fed to her by an ill-informed "Contact," right now I'd rather correct it than dismiss it.

Mutual dismissal has gotten us here and I'm stuck in the middle.
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From:natetg
Date:January 10th, 2005 10:48 pm (UTC)

Barbie Girl (German Version)

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Somewhat off-topic
I've never heard a german version of Barbie Girl, and, what was purported to be a german version of barbie girl was almost certainly not performed by Rammstein. There was a MP3 that claimed to be one, but was not in German (although quite clearly a cover of 'Barbie Girl').
Since Aqua is AFAIK Swedish, I would not at all be surprised if they produced a Swedish version of the song. I suppose I should check snopes.com ;)
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From:baxil
Date:January 10th, 2005 11:15 pm (UTC)

Re: Barbie Girl (German Version)

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Hey, good catch. Mislabeled MP3. Some quick Googling found confirmation here, the Dutch lyrics here, and a download link here for anyone who wants to hear it.

Fixing my mp3 tags now.
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From:elynne
Date:January 11th, 2005 03:41 am (UTC)

Re: Barbie Girl (German Version)

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Downloading now. And now I want to hear Rammstein do a cover of it. Or maybe Laibach. :D
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From:roaminrob
Date:January 11th, 2005 06:45 am (UTC)

It's called consequence

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I'm sorry.

I simply can't find any part of me that would feel sympathy for her. I even looked under both heels. Nor can I say, "Hey, she's a bully, but that's OK, because a recent victim is over it now."

I respect you enough that if I did have a hand in her current drama, I'd back off. But I don't, and I can't help but be glad that someone else is doing such a fine job.

The way I see it, she's a bully of the lowest kind: the kind that does it from the protection of anonymity. She has the same motivations as any other bully. She also, like any other bully, cries foul when the tables are turned.

For quite a while she's been getting her jollies out of making other peoples' lives a little more miserable than they need to be. She's moved into communities, and pretended to make friends, for the sole purpose of later mocking those same people. For quite a while she's been openly harassing other people, and now -- oh, so sadly -- she's being harassed.

Her favorite community entirely feeds itself off the pleasure of hurting others. I can't imagine that any group of people that would get together to spend hundreds or thousands of hours mocking others are leading healthier lives than those that they've targeted.

I'll cry foul if she gets physically hurt as a result of any of this, just because she hasn't physically hurt anyone else. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, she's fair game, especially to everyone she's targeted.

Oh, and Bax? Personally, I wouldn't say a darned thing to her. She'll just use it against you later. I know you're being your usual honorable self, which I respect, but dammit, that just doesn't work on someone like her. She won't just disappear if everyone ignores her.
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From:baxil
Date:January 11th, 2005 09:05 am (UTC)

Re: It's called consequence

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I wish I had any confidence that a post like this would have any effect on the behavior of anyone involved. I wish I had better confidence that my decision to abandon this approach would have any better effects.

All I know is what hasn't worked. Perhaps understanding will. If not ... well, I'm not doing this to tilt at windmills.
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From:arcturax
Date:January 11th, 2005 01:46 pm (UTC)

Re: It's called consequence

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I should probably stay out of this, but I felt I should add...

When all this started her immediate response was, "Oh it had to be Baxil's doing. Or someone who idolized it. So let's punish Baxil." and now she's got PoE'ers drawing up more hurtful pictures in response to something that she can't even accurately pin on Baxil here. So yeah, I add to this Baxil, you're wasting your breath on her, but I don't fault you for trying regardless.
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From:jazaaboo
Date:January 11th, 2005 04:57 pm (UTC)

Re: It's called consequence

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Oh, and Bax? Personally, I wouldn't say a darned thing to her. She'll just use it against you later.

Yeah because it's not like I recently had a friendly conversation with Kaijima or anything...
From:(Anonymous)
Date:January 12th, 2005 05:02 am (UTC)

It's called relaxation...

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If I may add something,

And I promise to keep it as respectful as possible.

You guys (Baxil not included) are missing the point. And since she’s standing here alone amongst a group of people that despise her, I’d like to take her side and add my thoughts to clarify the issue.

Jazz isn’t crying foul, nor is she afraid of some kind of furry ‘retribution.’ And why on earth would she *ever* need your sympathy?

Why should she be afraid? No person on PoE has ever been harassed, stalked, or otherwise harmed by any of the otherkin community, so far as I can tell.

This is the point: you guys take this stuff too seriously.

Talk of breaking fingers, cancer, crying foul, hurt feelings and all this embroiled animosity...you speak as if any of it matters in the slightest. This doesn’t just apply to Jazz’s picture, but anything people construe as bullying or mean by anonymous people over the web.

That’s the internet. If you make controversial posts where everyone can see (such as Baxil’s tale of Ginleth and Cobalt), people will notice, and people will make fun of you. You make a choice to post, and you run the risk that places like PoE will exploit it for comedy. A simple equation: cause and effect.

Then you get angry and/or depressed that someone is flaming you on a messageboard somewhere? Lighten up. You’ll have to come to terms with the fact that not everyone will be respectful, happy, or appeasing, and life will go on.

Ignore the criticism. Or, by all means, lash back. Come after us, if you dare. It’s your right to do whatever you want; you’re all more than entitled to say whatever you want. We won’t take offense. We won’t take it personally (despite however much you may wish we did). We’ll laugh at it and be merry—-just as you should. Getting angry will have absolutely no effect whatsoever, save hurting you.

Just relax.
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From:baxil
Date:January 14th, 2005 01:40 pm (UTC)

Re: It's called relaxation...

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Okay, waaaaaaait ... you in the same breath tell me that I'm not included in the group of people "missing the point," and then inform me that Jaz is both not afraid and has nothing to be afraid of.

The entire point of my post was to take her complaint at face value, based on the assumption that, y'know, words on the Internet actually can mean something. How is that not "missing the point" by your terms?
From:raki
Date:January 17th, 2005 11:32 am (UTC)

Re: It's called relaxation...

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Who died and made you the arbiter of what other people should and should not take seriously?

And dude, if you take this "threat" (it's rather pathetic that Jaz is taking the evidence she cites at face value, anyhow) seriously enough that young Jaz goes around throwing accusations at friends of mine, and you follow her into the LJ of supposed "perpetrator" of these threats, I reckon you're a big fat hypocrite.

Nothing so sad and funny as an amateur jerk-off with jizz in his eye, mate.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:January 18th, 2005 04:40 am (UTC)

Re: It's called relaxation...

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Oh boo. Jesus Christ girl.

Let me spell it out for you, since you couldn’t glean the meaning from my above post:

WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU DO.

To the people at PoE, the idea of furry retribution has never been, nor ever will be, anything more than a sad joke. You're not that important.

You annoyed--clearly annoyed--is what’s sad.

That's why I say: relax (It's just a suggestion).
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From:blackfyr
Date:January 20th, 2005 08:34 pm (UTC)

Re: It's called relaxation...

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WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU DO.

That is a demonstrable lie. If you and yours did not care, you would say nothing about furries or the otherkin at any time or in any way. Since you continue to do so, you prove that what you say is a lie.
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From:xydexx
Date:January 22nd, 2005 05:59 am (UTC)

Hey, stop taking things so seriously...

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WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU DO.
You certainly have a lot to say for someone who claims not to care what we do.
To the people at PoE, the idea of furry retribution has never been, nor ever will be, anything more than a sad joke. You're not that important.
You certainly have a lot to say for someone who claims we're not that important.
You annoyed--clearly annoyed--is what’s sad.
You certainly sound annoyed for someone who thinks we're the ones who need to relax...




...did someone hit a nerve, I wonder?
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From:queenofstripes
Date:January 12th, 2005 12:04 pm (UTC)
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I'm still just dumbfounded that jazaaboo is trying to cast herself as some kind of victim here. It's not like she didn't know that picture was going to cause grief and offense. She was willfully malicious, not to mention extraordinarily immature, end of story. It doesn't matter if she knits houses for old ladies or rehabilitates mimes in her spare time. All that matters is whether she has any particular remorse for setting out deliberately to hurt somebody because she thinks their beliefs are funny. I agree that physical violence is over the top, but I respect people's need to vent back at the bitch. The fact that she thinks she's above consequences for her malice means she really deserves whatever else she gets.
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From:jazaaboo
Date:January 16th, 2005 03:24 am (UTC)
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I'd be dumbfounded if I was trying to play the victim here too, since that's not why I posted that story.

I posted it because it was a funny story. It was funny because people had been trying to exact a very lame "revenge" on me, and that they were doing it months after the incident.

That's funny, don't you think?

I'm not scared of them, and until they make a serious attempt to hurt me (physically, career-wise, whatever), I never will be.
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